Episode #42: Casey Jacox- Keynote Speaker, Sales and Executive Coach, Podcaster and Author - "Win The Relationship, Not The Deal"

On this episode of Hiring University, get to know Casey Jacox, Keynote Speaker, Sales & Executive Leadership Coach, Podcaster & Author of "Win The Relationship, Not The Deal".   A twenty-year staffing executive, Casey shares his thoughts on what has changed, what has remained the same, and more importantly the constants that drive success not only in staffing but in life! 

"The things that I focus on are humility, vulnerability, and curiosity.

Those will never be replaced by AI.  I'm just saying what's what's worked for me when I check my ego every day and I realized that there's a, there's a way for me to get better at something. No matter if I was the number one guy at my job, I still could get better, and vulnerable enough that there's going to be something that someone's going to say that I don't know the answer to focus on  asking great questions and listening to the answers."

- Casey Jacox

For more Hiring University episodes tune into your favorite podcast player or visit us at www.ursusinc.com

Transcript

Jon Beck: [00:00:00] What's up, everybody? Welcome to episode number 42 of Hiring University. Today, we're going to spend 20 minutes or so with Casey Jay Cox. Casey has a lot of things under his, name and banner. Keynote speaker, Sales and Executive Leadership Coach, author of Win the Relationship, Not the Deal.

Love the title. I've read part of that book. Podcast host for the QB Dadcast, which I was lucky enough to be a guest on. You should check it out. And former staffing executive with almost 20 years in the business, Casey, welcome to hiring you. 

Casey Jacox: John, I'm grateful to be here and shout out to Robin Bear for connecting us.

Jon Beck: Robin Bear, indeed. Robin is the master connector of all people. , Great shout out and kudos to Robin. Casey, we're going to start our conversation working from the present and then go backwards, and, and get some insight into life of, of staffing.

 You're a coach, a mentor, a teacher, trainer, an industry resource. Are you all the above are those fair [00:01:00] descriptors? Am I missing anything? 

Casey Jacox: Yeah, I mean, more, I definitely more coach and mentor. I, you know, coaches sometimes mentors sometimes give you the answers. A coach asks more questions.

I think, coaching is about, , helping people come to their own rescue. But in high level summary, I'd say, yeah, that's, that's kind of this. Those titles found me. I did not find them. 

Jon Beck: And the title of your book and your business when the relationship, not the deal. Yeah. expand on that. Give us your thesis when you go into training and executive coaching because I know they're different but the same and what permeates throughout all those discussions that you have.

Yeah, the 

Casey Jacox: book came to me about give or take plus or minus 10 years ago when I was at K4 still and I remember I was on a plane going down to Dallas training some folks and I remember there people who were I was like the big brother. They were little brother and they were wanting to make big brother happy because they wanted to win every deal.

And they didn't have a lot of experience yet. And I was working with them saying, Hey, it's more, I expect you to win every deal, but you're not, but I'm more importantly, I expect you to win every person. [00:02:00] So how can we win a person when we lose a deal? And I got blank stares. Let me go think about it. So when we lose a deal and let's say we lose a deal to Ursus and Ursus and I follow up the client and say, Hey, Mr.

and Mrs. Client, you know, thanks for your opportunity to compete. I'm bummed. We didn't, uh, weren't able to find the talent for you, but I'm wanting to make sure that the talent you got from Ursus is everything that you hope for. Just doing that showed them I cared and I was uncommon and I was different.

And when I did that, I was like, guys, it's more important. We got to win the relationship, not the deal. And when I said it, it was like when Griswold from Christmas vacation saw his tree. And I was like, that's it. That's a title. But I knew I didn't want to write it when I was still at K Force because I didn't think that was fair to them or me because it would have been a distraction.

And so when the, when the bell rang and it was time for me to exit stage left, I spent four months, uh, wrote every day for about two hours. And if you had told me the book that I wrote in 2020 would be more impactful now, I'd be like, well, what are you talking about? Because COVID and remote selling and all these things, people forgot how to build [00:03:00] relationships.

It has blown my mind. Like, yesterday I was talking to a client and they said, You know, they get back to the basics and all his basics were not my basics. I'm talking about like, bring positive energy to every call, like focus on that level of detail. Watch what will happen. He's like, Oh my God, that's like, it's perfect.

But I'm like, think how simple it is. So to me, you know, winning, winning people is about always doing the right thing. It's about showing up. It's about being a great listener. It's about always setting expectations. Um, it's about if you can help somebody, you'd be honest with them. If you can't, you, you be, you're honest with them and you find someone else who can help them and really the, I've lived my almost 48 years of life on earth that way, and it's produced fairly decent results.

And, um, you know, I, I, I embrace AI, like we talked about before we start recording here, but I'd say the one thing that AI will never replace is the power of being nice. Amen. The power of setting great expectations, the power of being a great listener, the power of documenting in my CRM, the power of checking my ego and practicing, and the power [00:04:00] of having patience and letting relationships organically come to life.

Jon Beck: Not only the power of those things, but also the interpretation of those things. If you think about concepts like love, or integrity, you can't touch it, you can't see it, but you feel it and you understand it. AI can't do that. Because if you and I talk about what those things mean to us, we're probably going to have slightly, if not radically different interpretations.

And if you could span it out to a hundred or a thousand people, the same things exist as well, too. , and I love AI as well, too. I think it's amazing, but I think sometimes we're so desperate for Panaceas, especially in our industry. We think this is going to solve all of our problems. We're going to automate everything and, and it's, there's a place for it, but it definitely does not solve everything.

Let me go back to when you're, when you were talking about. the concept of winning the relationship, not the deal. Do you think the latest generation that came out of college into the workforce during the pandemic has [00:05:00] suffered as a result of that? I think and I'll tell you my own personal experience.

I think a lot of that generation in the last four years because they were accustomed to the flexibility of working from home and just doing thing, everything on zoom that they've, they've lost the value or understanding the value of those personal relationships. You agree with that? I 

Casey Jacox: think, yeah, I, um, I also think that sometimes it's a leadership challenge that leaders don't even realize they're doing it.

They're, they're, um, they're getting frustrated that, that they're, these people don't want to come back to work. They're getting frustrated. I'm generalizing here. I'm not putting every, every leader in the box, but some leaders I've come across, but they're, they're forgetting that they're, they're not activating one of their superpowers, which is curiosity and meeting these people where they are and asking questions to understand why they think that way versus getting frustrated and trying to tell them.

So I think. I'm a big believer of the word grace and benefit of the doubt. And so, yeah, they, I might not be doing, I might not agree with what they're thinking, but let's meet them where they are. Let me ask some questions [00:06:00] to make them realize how great my idea is to have them back in the office. And once they realize that, oh yeah, I do like being around people.

Oh yeah. I do like the energy that comes from hanging out with my buddies, you know, but, but they're not thinking about it because they're all, they're thinking about a short term. So. You know, when I, maybe back to the title of the book, when I wrote it, I wrote it for, colleges, wrote it for people in college to give them a practical book, not a, not a, like a, scholastic book, but a real life street fight book of, Hey, this is, this is real.

This is, these are, cause there's many stories of failure. More stories of failure than success in the book, I would say, and I want to college people and students to realize, hey, when you graduate, lean in on your authenticity, lean in on what you don't know, and embrace it. Because being perfect doesn't exist.

I'm a, shit, I had a coach. I've had two coaches. I got coached harder than my life at age 42 or 43 at the end of my K Force journey. And it's still one of the most powerful things I ever, I love speaking about it when I go into companies now. [00:07:00] So, I don't know, wrong with an answer. I do, but I definitely think there's room for kind of the other side to come meet them a little bit where they are.

I 

Jon Beck: agree with you. I think the responsibility falls on the manager because those. workers, graduates, they don't, they don't know anything different. Um, and my personal, we're a remote first company, you know, this, I've talked about a lot on the show. My personal thesis is whether you're three feet from your employee or 3000 miles from your employee, if you're not engaged and in tune, and asking questions and explaining the why behind the things that you're asking your team to do.

That's a failure. And we've all been in situations where the manager is three feet from their employee and they don't give them any time and they don't try to understand what motivates them. Everyone's unique and has their own triggers and things that are going to get them excited and motivated. And so I think there's a huge responsibility right now.

And we're failing a lot of those new entrance into the workforce as a result of that. And, [00:08:00] 

Casey Jacox: um, Well, can I say something real quick? I'm like, so one of the things that, um, hit me at the end of my career was the difference between appreciation and time. And so if there's leaders out there that are like trying to connect based on what we're talking about, trying to win people and not, I don't mean like a win or lose, but just like you're trying to like, win that, but like, man, that person's, he was great or she was fantastic is recognition takes, I think spending money on something, appreciation just takes time.

It appreciating just takes five seconds of just saying, Hey man, I just, I know, I know you haven't hit your, your revenue goal, but you know what? You're working your ass off. And I love, I love your effort and I love how you show up and it's going to hit capital for you. I just want to say, appreciate you or a company I'm working with.

The CEO wrote handwritten notes to every single employee. I mean, old school stuff, but it works because success leaves 

Jon Beck: clues. We do that. Every single contractor we place gets a handwritten note from yours truly. I can't tell you how many people appreciate the fact because nobody does it anymore. It's, it's the little things and the [00:09:00] word I use is authenticity.

It's about being authentic. And, and people, especially this generation can sniff you out if you're not. Let me ask you, the QB dad cast and when the relationship, is there overlap in those two forms? 

Casey Jacox: Pure accident. Okay. I did not mean I, in 2020, I wrote the book, started the podcast. And I had a two year kind of like I was off on the sidelines for a little bit and I, my second year off was just like networking.

And, now it is so intertwined, like a tornado, like they're all, you know, like, cause, but I didn't, when I did it, that was, that was, and I think that's why it's been successful. Cause I didn't, that was not the goal. Like, well, how can I like talk to a CEO and then get them on my podcast? It just, this organically happened.

And when I go speak, people they'll hear about the podcast and all of a sudden I'll pick up some new listeners and all of a sudden, Oh, Hey, I, you know, I want to be on it. And then I didn't realize when I speak, when I interviewed dads. That that'll help connect the culture of the employee because the employees will be like, wow, I didn't know my boss, [00:10:00] his dad was in Vietnam, or I didn't know he was a first generation Italian.

I didn't know that his grandmother passed away from cancer. So do mine. And all of a sudden it's driving authentic connection. Not the point, but that's why I think, you know, season five, I got 236 episodes so far and which blows me away still. Awesome. But, um, 

Jon Beck: Well, when I was doing, when I was doing the prep and looking at it and thinking about it.

When the relationship, the dad cast, well, I certainly applies to marriage, winning the relationship. Um, right. And it does with your kids as well, too. And it's not about it. Maybe winning is too strong of a word. We talk about your, your family relationships, but, it's the same concepts. It's about what we just talked about.

It's about appreciation and it's about listening and it's about authenticity. And, those interpersonal relationships are, the same. And it's funny because as I think about our own interview process. Yeah. Without being too intrusive, or crossing any lines, we ask candidates about their personal, like what they do for fun and their family life and that sort of thing.

[00:11:00] And that tells us a lot about who they are and how they value team because families are teams. So, there's definitely some, some intersections for sure. 

Casey Jacox: To, to, to, give proof of that. So that those that have finished the whole book, yeah, I know you have, yeah, hopefully you will. The very end of it, it's I apply real world examples to it.

So when my dad, my dad was still alive when I wrote the book. And so my dad passed away December 29, 2021. And he was battling a rap sheet of health issues, specifically dementia. And so part of that last chapter was when the relationship with my dad, not the dementia. And then I use this, then I use the sarcastic one about, you know, people who are boaters know this.

I'm not a hardcore boater, but I like being in the water. And I said, when the marriage, not the boat launch. Because people who ever launched boats, it's, it's usually prime for husbands and wives to argue and yell at each other and do this to them. So I share a funny story. And then lastly, like coaching athletes, I said, when the athlete, not the outcome of the game, so many coaches focus on winning and, but like creating 

Jon Beck: character.

Yes, [00:12:00] the winning takes care of itself. 100%. Casey, how long have you been out of staffing? 

Casey Jacox: Five, six years? March? No, about for March of 2019. Okay. 

Jon Beck: , but you say you're still close and you follow the industry industry and you train a lot of staffing companies, correct? 

Casey Jacox: Yep. I've been highly, I would say I'm very tightly aligned with like tech serve.

They brought me into speak multiple times and I have quite a few staffing companies. I coach and train and speak to. 

Jon Beck: Cool. So the question I have for you is in the 25 years that you've been in the industry and all the threats that have come along the way, job boards were going to eliminate the need for recruiting firms, MSPs were going to kill the business.

Now it's AI. What are three constants that existed when you first started that are still true today? What things can you, three things can you take to the bank? Before I give that Be successful. 

Casey Jacox: . So I would say before I answer that question, I'd like to go back and say, so when I started, it was during the.

com crash, the world was [00:13:00] ending, John, and then I went through 2008. Oh yeah. The world was ending again. It didn't. I made it to 2013, 14. The world was ending. No, it didn't. Then I made it through COVID. I started my business during a global pandemic. What a perfect time. I still, still made it. So the, the things that I focus on are humility, vulnerability, and curiosity.

Those will never be replaced by AI. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying what's what's worked for me when I check my ego every day and I realized that there's a, there's a way for me to get better at something. No matter if I was the number one guy at K Force for X years, I still could get better, vulnerable enough that there's going to be something that someone's going to say that I don't know the answer to.

So ask a question. And then listen and then, be interesting, not, I mean, be interested in someone not always interesting. So like focus on asking great questions. And so those things have helped me withstand everything. They got me through this virtual selling thing that was so different and so crazy and so hard yet.

The same person that I, the things that I wrote, wrote, wrote about are [00:14:00] still working. , people can disagree with me all they want. I'm just telling you for me, the six things I wrote about my book are helping, but the three things I focus on my pillars of my life that shaped me as a dad, a husband, a father, a friend, coach, business leaders, humility, vulnerability, and curiosity.

Jon Beck: I'm going to put a marker once I edit this podcast and play it back to my team. Could not agree with you more. Same question for you. What's changed? One thing that's changed in 25 years. Technology. 

Casey Jacox: Technology's changed. So you have to adapt to learn new skills. You know, what's, what's hot. Um, obviously we, we're, there's remote employees.

There's ways to like, you got to connect with people differently. That's changed. I don't have any hair. That's changed. 

Jon Beck: That's makes two of us. Follow up question. If I said to you, Casey, there's a pill that you can take no side effects whatsoever, and you can have a full head of hair. Would you take it?

No. Me either. It's beautiful, baby. [00:15:00] Me either. Yes. Once you've done it, you'll never go back. No. Sometimes it's tempting, but no. 

Casey Jacox: No, I love having a bald dome. I never thought I could grow a beard until seven years ago. And now I'm straight Grizzly Adams. Rocking it. Love 

Jon Beck: it. And it's not great. Yes. Third question of that 25 year span, or I guess projecting forward in 10 years, what do you think will change or become even more important than 

Casey Jacox: it is today?

Can I be Nostradamus and predict the future? I think we're going to go back and, , my hope is that people continue to slow down to go faster in life, meaning that, , we're going to think that technologies has to evolve and change and all these things. We're gonna do these things, but we're going to forget that.

Wait a minute. We actually need each other. We need connection. We need human contact. And yeah, it's, there's these bots are great and these technologies are great. But if in the end, if I'm on an island by myself, I don't want to talk to a computer. I want to talk to a person. I want to hear about their [00:16:00] mom and dad.

 I want to hear about, you know, things that you build relationships. You remember about people, not technology. And so I hope that as we continue, this technology is crazy and generative AI and all this stuff keeps evolving.

We realized that the power of human connection will never be replaced by anything, in my opinion. Yeah. And 

Jon Beck: you're seeing threads of that starting to happen more and more where people are really appreciating. Opportunities for more connection. It's funny again, as a virtual company, we've gotten pretty good at it.

We leverage all the technology, but when we talk to our team and survey them, the thing that they enjoy most is our all hands in person meetings, and if we get together for three days, we're maybe spending two or three hours talking about work and the rest of it is team building and getting to know each other.

And they, they, they just, they gravitate and want more of it, which is very telling to me. Yeah. Let's go to a bit of a speed round here. Other than the QB dad cast and hiring university, what's your favorite podcast? [00:17:00] Smart list. 

Casey Jacox: Tell us about it. Um, Jason Bateman, Will Arnett, Sean Hayes. It's fantastic.

It's me, my laugh, my ass off. Um, they're on 

Jon Beck: my goal. I didn't know. I know that I didn't know what it's called. 

Casey Jacox: Okay. So Bateman, if you're a fan of Ursus and you're out there. Welcome. Invite brother. Your dad. You need to come on quarterback. Dad. Cassidy's listening. Um, I love smart list. I like, , I like, , some hockey podcasts, 32 dots.

Um, like I'm, I'm a adopted hockey guy with my Seattle Kraken. I like finding mastery is a good one too. Good. Michael Jervais. 

Jon Beck: Good, good, good. Excellent. What's your biggest pet peeve when you're training salespeople? People who are late. No! Or people who We call 

Casey Jacox: them out. Oh yeah. People who look at, people who look at their notifications when we're meeting.

Jon Beck: What does that tell you? What does that tell you when somebody's late or, looking at something else rather than you and engaging? What does that tell you about them? 

Casey Jacox: Um, either they're, [00:18:00] they've, they've not been taught the importance of this, so I give them grace. , 

they lack, they lack respect for people's time, but I do think that they can be teachable now again, I'm not going to let them teach him for six years. I'm going to eventually punt and go elsewhere, but, sometimes asking people questions in a late, Hey, tell me how it would feel if I showed up 15 minutes late and pretend like nothing happened.

How would that make you feel? Yep. You get a blank stare. 

Jon Beck: Spot on. I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask you for our listeners. Your favorite saying? 

Casey Jacox: , well, the easy answer could be, um, win the relationship, not the deal. But I'm going to, I'm, my favorite saying that impacted me a lot and still impacts me a lot, is more of a question is, do you want to be right or do you want to get what you want?

And to me, it's an easy answer. I used it as when I would interview people, but focusing on getting what I want less than being right, which means my ego is getting in the way if I want to be right. And I had to use [00:19:00] that, that advice to myself often in staffing when I didn't want to hear it.

Frustrating. I was like, Oh, but why are they not hiring this person? What are you, an idiot? But we have done, we've not done a good enough job either articulating the why or, or a lot or discovery was lacking, but in getting what you want is a happy outcome customer, happy outcome consultant, happy outcome teammates.

Jon Beck: I thought you were going to say, stay curious, which is your signature. Similar. Yeah. 

Casey Jacox: That's, uh, it's funny how those things happen. I didn't, you know, that's now just stuck. I love it. You know, I love it. I love it. 

Jon Beck: If a wild cat and an Eagle were to actually get in the fight. Who would win ? 

Casey Jacox: Um, I think a wildcat because it's gonna just chop its wing off and it's gonna be un flyable.

Jon Beck: Casey, was a, quarterback in college and, , that's his mascot versus his arch 

Casey Jacox: rival. Uh, at, I could throw, I could throw a ball with that mountain too. I be. [00:20:00] Uncle Rico, baby. 

Jon Beck: I love it. Casey, appreciate you making the time. If our audience members want to connect with you, to discuss sales training, executive coaching, QB dad cast, what's the best way to get in 

Casey Jacox: contact with you?

LinkedIn, I'm very, very active there. They can also go to my website, which is just kcjcox. com. , there's videos or testimonials or information about kind of what I do and how this journey found me. But, you'll find with me, I love connecting people. I teach what's called a boomerang mindset. I do not keep score.

So if we connect and there's something I can do to help you, I will do it. And people that know me know that I'm not full of shit. And they'll, they'll, but those that don't want to find out, then I won't help you. But connect with me and we'll find a way to help you. 

Jon Beck: Good stuff. Love it. Thank you again for coming on the show.

We'll definitely have you on again. It's the QB dad cast. We'll make sure we put it in the notes of the podcast for our listeners. Thanks for tuning in. Continue to stay hungry. Stay positive. Stay safe. Stay curious. Oh, [00:21:00] and we'll see you next time on hiring you. 

Casey Jacox: Thanks Casey. Batman.