Episode #53: Carlos Martinez - CEO & Co - Founder - Lumibuild

🎙️ New Hiring U! Episode Just Dropped!

I’m excited to welcome back Carlos Martinez, Founder & CEO of Lumibuild and Nexxtspace, and officially Hiring U’s first repeat guest! When Carlos and I get together, the conversations are always real, unfiltered, and rooted in what it truly means to build and lead service businesses in today’s market.

In this episode, we dig into:
 🔥 Why 2026 is already buzzing with momentum
 🏗️ The breakneck pace of AI-era office builds
 🤝 How service businesses actually differentiate in a “commoditized” world
 🧠 Leadership, humility, culture, and protecting your team
 ⚠️ The realities (and risks) of AI adoption for small companies
 …plus a few laughs and some founder-to-founder truth bombs.

If you’re a leader, founder, builder, or anyone navigating the wild ride of scaling a services business — this one’s for you.

🎧 Listen to the full episode here: https://ursusinc.com/media/
Let me know what resonates!

#HiringU #Podcast #Leadership #Entrepreneurship #Staffing #Culture #AI #Founders #LUMIBuild 

For more Hiring University episodes tune into your favorite podcast player or visit us at www.ursusinc.com

Transcript

Jon Beck: [00:00:00] What's up everybody? Welcome to Hiring University. Kind of a different format. Today I've got Carlos Martinez, founder and CEO of Lumi build. Carlos, has been on the show before. actually may be the first repeat guest. Congratulations. We'll get you a t-shirt for that.

Carlos and I both. Founders of services, businesses, in Silicon Valley, and he and I get together periodically and shoot the proverbial shit about what's happening in the market and. frustrations that we have. so we thought this episode, we just kind of freeform it. about what it's like and the challenges 'cause it relates to both of our businesses and our listeners.

many of whom are small businesses. And so, Carlos, welcome back. 

Carlos Martinez: Thanks man. Thanks for having me back. It was a blast last time. I know when I approached you about this, I wasn't really sure what we should talk about. I just know that it's super enjoyable anytime you and I get together. but once we get going, it [00:01:00] just starts coming out and we start talking about, what it's like to be founders and to be leaders and whatnot.

And there's never a shortage of, of some, some nuggets of wisdom that you always tend to, to, to give me. And hopefully I do the same for you. So. let's see if we can extend that to, to your audience. In this case, 

Jon Beck: we were chatting just before and I said, hold on, let's just hit the record button about the year.

And, knock on wood, Carlos and I, you know, our respective businesses are having a good year, and what we're feeling, I think is anticipation for. I don't know if I wanna say rebound, that's too strong of a word, but a bigger 2026. You can sort of feel it in in your personal indicators, but tell me what you're seeing out there.

'cause you guys are doing a lot of builds and there's obviously a lot of money floating around there in, in the valley. What's, what are you seeing out there? 

Carlos Martinez: Yeah, for sure. As I was mentioning to you, John, by this time, most years, we're almost a decade in at Louisville. we turn 10 next year 

what we've seen [00:02:00] usually by November, December timeframe is things start to slow down and start to close shop A lot of business, start to close shop this year has been very different. I'll give you an example. Just last week, five RFPs. Like almost on the same day. Yes. In our, in our table, right?

Yes. So, does that mean that those RFPs are going to, be executed this year? No. Right. There's a lot of preparation, but it's definitely different than what we've experienced. And there's a buzz, there's a need to want to complete projects and cram as much building and redesigning, and to spend money, 

Towards in these last few months that are coming up. And we haven't seen that before. And the only thing I can think of, I don't know, right? we don't have a magic ball that gives us the answers to why this might be the thing. But the only thing I can think of is that everyone wants to start day one in 2026.

Off to the races and not worry about some of these builds or some of the more logistical things that are [00:03:00] gonna keep them from operating, at their ultimate capacity. Right? So that's really the only thing I can think of. but really, who knows? I'm not sure. And then obviously you have the usual use it or lose it funds, those things still come into play.

For me, it's a combination of those two things that are keeping us busy in the month of October and November. and December doesn't seem to let up. so yeah, I don't know. 

Jon Beck: And this just isn't, I mean, obviously there's so much AI money being thrown around in these billion dollar buildouts of data centers.

Not so much. I mean, it like, yeah, I don't, I don't know, man. I feel like I've seen this movie before. But that's not the only reason why. I agree with you. it feels like there's been almost a two or three year pent up, like everyone's sort of waiting for this release of m and a activity and builds, and like you've got the COVID hangover, which is finally over.

We've all agreed on what return to work looks like, you know, and people are just like, ready to get on with it. That's how it feels to me. And I can't. [00:04:00] Point to any macro thing or thing I've seen in the news. I just feel it in the conversations. so I don't think it's AI inflation here, do you? 

that's not just that. 

Carlos Martinez: I don't think so, man. there is a big element of that. What we're seeing in the AI space in terms of builds and the projects that we're working on at Living Build is a lot of founders, a lot of leaders who have never actually even built an office.

Ever, 

So this is what we're seeing, right? We're seeing founders in ai. Create something in ai I'm the least qualified person to talk about ai, so I'll just leave it that's not true, but 

Jon Beck: keep going. That's totally not true, but keep going. 

Carlos Martinez: But 

Jon Beck: I've looked 

Carlos Martinez: at your 

Jon Beck: chat prompts.

Carlos Martinez: There we go. But, essentially they go, oh my God, XX VC firm gave us a bunch of money. And they go from one day getting all this money to a week later, needing an office to a week later moving in. That to me, I've never experienced it because I wasn't in business during the.com boom. But I would like to think that it [00:05:00] was somewhat like that where the timeframe between when the money gets acquired and when businesses get funded to the time when they're actually in the office and operating and hiring like crazy.

I shit you not, man. it's so short. Like we've gotten requests where they go, we signed the lease today. We're like, great. So you're moving in in three months? No, no, no. We signed a lease today. We are moving next week, and we need to buy furniture and we need to have a, it's like condensed, man. Yeah.

It's so. Fast. So speed of business for businesses like you and I Hiring the people that fill those buildings and for our companies. By the way, I started a second company two years ago, which is also impacted in a good way by this. 

But it's like, let's move in, let's install the technology, let's get it working.

it's 30 days. It is super, super vast because I get the sense that no one wants to be left behind man. they're executing really, really rapidly. 

Jon Beck: There's definitely [00:06:00] FOMO on the speed side. I was around the.com thing.

it is different for sure 'cause these are real businesses and obviously the ability to turn up a business with all the tools available today is, is different. The thing that we come across, and I'm sure you do too, is, and this is not a dig in any way, but like some of these founders. Who are brilliant minds, obviously have no real world experience or concept.

So when they're trying to do stuff like build out an office or hire a bunch of people, like, there's no real plan. And so much of it is like, you gotta kind of shepherd them along. and I dare I say like, it's almost like the parent like, no, no, we can't, like, they just don't know.

They don't know anything about anything. 

Carlos Martinez: They, they don't. And It's not, I like the way that you have that disclaimer. It's not a dig at them. They're creating amazing things That are solving amazing, problems in the universe. It's not that they're not smart, it's just that they've never done it.

Jon Beck: Yep. 

Carlos Martinez: and then you have that person that goes. Oh, I just got all this [00:07:00] money. Now I have responsibilities to, to investors, et cetera. I gotta go do my thing. So then they go, who can build this office for me? Okay, you, you in the corner. I know you've never done it either, but guess what? It's your turn to figure it out.

So then you have this person once again, usually in like their twenties, who's never built an office. 

Jon Beck: Yeah. 

Carlos Martinez: and they come to us and we go, great. Is it a union building? what are the COI requirements? Et cetera, et cetera. They go. I don't know what you're talking about. 

What? We go, okay, we got you. Don't worry about it. And it's very clear that they were put in a position in some ways not to fail because companies need to do what they need to do. And if that's the person that they have in that moment to delegate these two, well, it is what it is. and it's a benefit to us because we like to be of service.

We like to go. Don't worry, don't freak out. we're gonna get you there. But yeah man, it's happening a lot. 

Jon Beck: So we both are in the services business, which many argue is like [00:08:00] hard to differentiate, commoditize, right? If you do a service of building out, you know, conference rooms and setting up offices or hiring people, like I can call anybody to do it, which is insulting.

Because we know that, because we know there's a difference. Yeah. Like how do you communicate and articulate those differences, especially to somebody who we just, you know, agreed upon, doesn't know anything about anything. Like, oh, I call Lubo. I can call these five companies. Like how do you, how do you cut through that?

Carlos Martinez: Yeah, man, that's a really good question. And so over the past year or so, I've really sat to think about. What it is that my partner and I, Mike, and myself, really set out to do, and did we really achieve those things? And so when I looked at the last 10 years, I realized that yes, we achieved a lot of it.

And at the end of the day, I realize that it comes down to. For me, and I've been harping, on this with the [00:09:00] team and they're probably tired of me, talking about it, but it does come down to being hospitable, right?

Because look, to me, providing quality solutions and projects and staying on budget and delivering on time, to me at this point is table stakes that's just what you need to do. But what is the prequel look like? how do you tee up your team to be able to do what I just described properly?

that's really for me, where I've been focusing. And so this is what I do to make sure that our clients understand that we are different. I don't tell them that we're different. I don't say that we're different. 

Instead from the moment they jump on a call with me or whoever here at the company, they should feel like they just walked into a Michelin star restaurant.

They should feel like they just jumped on first class, Delta or whatever your favorite, airline is, right? I don't spend a lot of money on a lot of things, but one thing that I do spend money on [00:10:00] is amazing hotels, amazing flights. The traditional hospitality, right? And so why can't we offer that same level of hospitality in every interaction that we have in our service business?

We can, if we really think about it, we don't need to be a hotel chain. We don't need to be an airline. We don't need to be a restaurant. And so instead of jumping on and saying, here, let me tell you what we're different. We just show them why we're different and we make them feel different from the get go, but we have to carry it through the execution of the project too.

We can't just make them feel different essentially, quote unquote hook them or whatever you want to use. No. we make them feel different in the moment, right. we express how we are relatable. I think one superpower that we have, I have with Mike, my partner, is we were in their shoes, so we can speak to the corporate language, but I think it's just, it's ironic that I'm answering your question by saying, don't tell 'em you're different.[00:11:00] 

Just make them feel different in, in the moment. 

Jon Beck: they'll figure it out over time. Assuming that they're aligned with you and they'll share their experiences with other, I'll tell you a story. 'cause you know, being in the services business, I'm sure the same way, like I look at everything around me, that I'm interacting with my own personal life.

I looked through it the same way. I'd have some roof, work done, on our house. We had some dry rod and stuff like that, and of course I reached out to him. I know we're, anybody have a roofing contact? Yeah, I got this guy. He is great. He owns those business. He's awesome. He does terrific work.

Cool. Call him, comes out, goes up, does the estimate, and says, I'll get back to you in a couple days with a service schedule. And a week goes by week and a half. So I sent an email and he, then he loops me into his office coordinator. Oh. So sorry for the delay. I'm gonna get back to you at specific times tomorrow.

Another week goes by And then the guys show up, his crew shows up and they're like, okay, what are we doing here? And like my confidence level [00:12:00] totally eroded. Like, and you know, I get, because I, it was a personal friend who knew him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and they got back on track.

But otherwise, I'm like, dude, you're fired, man. Even if you do the best work out there, like so much of it is the interaction and communication which just gets lost. It's easy to say, it's hard to do, but you see it with everything. And the reason why I said alignment is, you know, you deal with, with your clients who you want to call partners, and a lot of times they're calling you partner, but then you know, you get into the project and they start shitting on you for stuff and don't communicate back.

Right. What do you do with that too? Because let's be honest, there's just primadonnas everywhere in our industry. 

Carlos Martinez: Yes. 

How do I, what's the question specifically? 

Jon Beck: Well, how do you, how do you navigate that?

Right. Because, you know, part of you is like, F this, like I, you know, I didn't start my own business to work with assholes. I wanna work with people that respect you. Yeah. But by the same token, you gotta run a business and get stuff done. 

Carlos Martinez: Yeah. 

Jon Beck: Right. 

Carlos Martinez: So look, I think that there's a couple things that [00:13:00] I've done in my personal life, that have served me in my personal life and also in my professional life, right?

the first thing that I do is I have to set the tone for myself, number one. So there are two things that I do routinely, every single day, the first thing is. I go, nobody cares who you are. Los, like nobody cares who you are. Now let me be very clear.

That's different than saying no one cares for you or you're not likable. 

It's more like no one cares who you are. No one cares that you own two businesses. No one cares that you have X amount of money or drive whatever car. No one cares, right? No one gives a shit and no one should, okay?

So that's number one. You're essentially putting yourself in the, for me, and this is me, I knock myself down and go, okay, no ego, no one cares. All right? What they should care about, how you make them feel and how service serial you're being for them, and any given day, that could be a client, that could be a family member, that could be, someone that works for me, that could be my co-founder.

Are you gonna be the best version of yourself? ultimately we [00:14:00] miss the mark. We make wrong decisions, we say the wrong thing, we don't close, et cetera, et cetera.

As long as you're willing to say, you know what? Today I wasn't the best version of myself, but guess what, tomorrow this, someone will come back up and I will try it all again. So those two things. Are internal. Now how I deal with other people that don't act that way or that are assholes, I think ultimately at the end of the day, I just remind myself that, it's not me.

'cause I've done my internal homework, I've done my self assessment, and I can't control what they're going to do. The other part is really safeguarding my team from that, right? 

I always give 'em the autonomy to say, look, if you're in a position where you feel like you need to take shit from someone because you're trying to close, there's diminishing returns there.

Like there's plenty of business in this industry. Yeah. Yeah. That shiny logo. It's amazing and the [00:15:00] revenue, it's amazing. But what do you get in return? You get burnout. You, you start to erode the culture internally. So I've given my team autonomy to go, Hey, lo, like, this just doesn't feel right. It just doesn't feel right.

It feels demeaning. I'm not, I'm not being treated like professional. I've tried everything. And then what I go is, okay, add me to the next meeting. Let me make sure and assess that you're not just waving the white flag and you're having a bad day and can't deal with it. I jump in and I have a lot of experience with people, so I go, you're right.

Nothing that we do is ever gonna make that person happy, and it's just gonna be diminishing research. But in some cases I go. See how I disarm them, see how I changed their perspective and there's learning moments there to be had. So one self-assessment and being like, don't be that guy, number one, right?

Because I can't tell others to chill out when I'm that guy. And then the second one is just making sure your team is, has the autonomy to step away from something that could be [00:16:00] toxic. 

Jon Beck: I love that answer. not just in business, but in life. have you ever fired a client? 

Carlos Martinez: Yes. And they boomerang and, it was one of those situations, man, where it just, we tried and we tried and we tried and it just, it wasn't the client's fault, it was just a combination of things that at the end of the day, the stars were not aligning.

And furthermore, they were colliding and it was creating explosions everywhere. So. I said, look, we're gonna close out this last engagement, and after that you and I will have a beer, and if I see you out somewhere, we're gonna say hi to each other. And it's all good. It's not personal. I always make it clear any, at any point, in my professional life that I don't burn bridges.

Right, right. I don't cost at clients. No. It's just not a good match. And I think A lot of founders, John, and a lot of leaders are so afraid of that. I would actually, [00:17:00] I would question why, right? Could it be that you're not getting a ton of business, so you kind of have to eat shit and deal with it because you don't know when your next project will come.

That's fair, man. That's very real. We live in one of the most expensive places to conduct business and, and you know what? That could be a reality, but really understanding why you're afraid to fire a client. in that moment it was the right thing to do and there was a lot of revenue to be had, and there was a lot of building that was gonna happen with that client.

Later they came back and I welcomed it. I wasn't throwing it in their face. I wasn't rude about it. I said, man, like, thank you for coming back. Like, we can try this again. It was like six months or maybe 12 months later, and now it's been amazing.

Right. So sometimes it's just timing. 

Jon Beck: That's cool. We, I, I fired a handful. Similar to you. We had like one hand, not two. I have big hands. but there was one and you, and you touched on it, about your team and protecting your team. We [00:18:00] had a, a, it was again, a nice piece of business for us. He, our contact, he was C-level and he was so demeaning to our team and the first time he did it, I reached out to him.

We had a conversation and said, look, I just can't. Tolerate that. and then he did it again within like a week and I parted as gracefully as I could, but it was like, I had no choice. I guess that's the big thing is you've gotta trust your team and give them the freedom, and the safety to be able to express how they're feeling, which doesn't exist in a lot of companies.

Carlos Martinez: Yeah. 

Jon Beck: my team was like, so thankful. Like, oh my God, thank you for doing, like, no, listen, I, we're not gonna stand for that. And then digging deeper with them, like, yeah, I've worked in places before where like I just get shit on constantly. My business didn't do anything about it.

Right. They're either asleep at the wheel, they just don't care. 

Carlos Martinez: it's profit over people, man. It's profit over people. It, it's top line over people. 

Jon Beck: Totally. 

Carlos Martinez: and that's a shitty way to live. God. And it's a really bad way to do business and it's a really good way and quick way to [00:19:00] have high turnover.

Jon Beck: Yeah. How many people do you have now? Lummi 

Carlos Martinez: 53. 

Jon Beck: And has it gotten. Easier, harder. The same with all the, I mean, the layoff news to me, like I, I always take everything with a grain of salt because people get so spun up by it. It's like, and again, I'm compassionate people losing their jobs, but like Amazon laying off 14,000 people, they have, you know, 600,000 people work for 'em.

They probably did have some bloat. Right. So let me ask you the question. Is it, is it harder, easier, the same to find people and you get, I know you're picky, as am I. How has that been? In the market finding, you know, the talent and more importantly the culture fit for you guys? 

Carlos Martinez: Yeah, really good question. so look, because of where we are in the world, it's always gonna be tough to find talent that's willing to work at a 50 person shop versus the Googles and the Ubers and the attenders, right?

Because they can always offer much bigger paychecks on any given day. It's [00:20:00] been tough, in that sense where we feel like we're close and then someone comes in and offers them, you know, 20, 25% more, in some cases, 50% more, right? Because they're just willing to do that and they can do that. at the end of the day, we try not to convince people that this is the right place for them.

We try to explain to them. We try to match their, their goals and their work life, whatever their version of work-life balance. 'cause that's a whole nother thing that I can get into. I think many people think that work-life balance is just one fits one. Like, sorry, one size fits all when it's actually one fits one.

But we try to say, look, this is who we are. This is what we're trying to achieve. This is how we're positioned in the market. this is my background and how I like to lead the company along with Mike. and it's ultimately up to them whether they choose The crazy meals and the gym and the all the perks over a place that's got some grit that's respected in the industry, that has some amazing clients [00:21:00] and a place where they can learn, to be honest, to almost run their own business.

Jon Beck: Yep. 

Carlos Martinez: We're very transparent here, so I just had a conversation with one of our account managers where they're about to embark on becoming. AV professionals in a different way for a long period of time. So right now they have a, they have a choice to make. Do I want to be in the collaboration workplace technology industry long term?

If not, this is where you should offboard because we're about to embark you. the sales team is about to embark on going all in. They're gonna get technical, very like very technical. Soon. They're gonna do a lot of sales enablement. So it's actually so funny that we're talking about this.

And so at the end of the day, I say, look, you're gonna learn, we're gonna be an open book here. you're gonna learn to run a business. Now, are you gonna be able to do that at the big ones? No. They're gonna tell you that you're gonna be siloed, you're gonna do these five things, and that's kind of it, [00:22:00] right?

Ultimately we lost some really good people, because we can't compete with salaries and they do want to taste that, that glam, that, that romantic glamor of like, you know, the big companies. But we met people who do that and then they, they go, it wasn't all that it was, you know, cut out to be and they come back, but I don't know how you 

Jon Beck: No, it, I sim similar, like you're not just gonna be a number or cog in the machine.

We're gonna show you how we make the sausage, which if you want to go do your own thing, at some point you're gonna get exposure and see things that you wouldn't otherwise. And acknowledging like it's not for everybody. I heard from a candidate, or maybe it was from another recruiters trying to help us who said like, something they may have even called us, like arrogant.

And I'm like, I don't think it's arrogant. I think we know who we are and we're very transparent with candidates to say like. If you're going to sign up, this is what it's about. And it's not better or worse than other companies. It's just different. Yeah. And different doesn't have to be bad, but here's how we roll and the people that are here thrive on it.

[00:23:00] And if that's not your deal, cool. But like I'm gonna tell you, so you know, you know there's not gonna be any surprises when you get here during the process. We're gonna tell you what the expectations are and how we do, and we work really hard. We have a lot of fun. We like to win and we learn a lot. And some people, that's not their gig and that's cool.

so I, you know, I don't think arrogance is the right word. I think it's, I think it's, you know, self-aware. 

Carlos Martinez: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. 

And, and you're right, it's not arrogance. It's just knowing what you're worth as a company. 

Jon Beck: Standards that you set for 

Carlos Martinez: yourself. 

if not, why are we really doing this right? If we're gonna be one of the bunch why, like, John, you and I know how hard this is, right?

It's difficult. Now. I don't need a violin playing, you know, I don't need any of that. Right? But let's call it what it is. Being an entrepreneur and working in such a competitive space, it is difficult. So there has to be. a certain level of having a chip on your shoulder for sure. 

to go out there and compete and win, like you just said it, there's nothing wrong with saying we want to win. Yep. Like, we [00:24:00] want to work hard and we want to achieve whatever in our respective roles. Right. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as you're being ethical, respectful about it and sticking to your core values.

Now your strategic values might change. They have to, because otherwise you'll be left behind. But as long as you, your core values are remaining and you're treating everyone with the utmost respect. it's okay to say that you wanna win and that you expect everyone to work hard and that you want them to also achieve their personal financial goals or whatever the case may be.

And that all comes at a cost. 

Jon Beck: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. How much, like looking from the outside in, I obviously know a lot about your business, but like how much does AI impact what you do, if at all? Like, are you getting hit up by other vendors and stuff? I must get 20 calls a day from AI companies that are gonna solve all my problems that I don't have.

It's like I have such AI fatigue on that front. 

Carlos Martinez: Yeah. So from, From being approached. There's definitely, I [00:25:00] get probably, I don't know, man, 50 emails a week about how they can find me more leads using their AI tool. Or how they can, create, designs quicker using their tool.

So I get those all the time. I haven't quite gotten to the point where I read one and I rarely read them fully 'cause I could read the first paragraph and know that they've sent this to a million other people. I haven't quite read one enough to go, actually, this sounds intriguing. So that's number one.

from an industry standpoint, specifically speaking about lumen build, the AV industry, I'll be honest, is. Generally really slow. And the workplace technology, space is generally really slow to adopt whatever the newest thing is. specifically talking about av, it's starting to weave itself in and things like camera tracking and that sort of stuff.

Is it where the other companies are [00:26:00] at and how long they've been adopting AI to really make their products and their solutions shine and have impact? Not really. I don't know what it is about our industry that We are just so slow to get there.

But the other piece too is it's a lot easier to integrate AI into something that's more software based 

Than hardware. So a lot of our industry is hardware based, so we are beholden to putting out a piece of hardware and then having it live for however long it's gonna live, and then the next version of it comes out.

Being able to interject the newest thing in this case. Ai, for example, on the device that I'm on right now, might not be as simple as a software based, company where they go, we write this code and at the drop of a hat we can just change the code. And now it's enabled with all the new AI things, right?

So there is that, that aspect of it. and then the last part when it comes to ai, Mike and I were just talking about, Hey man, this is a real thing. What are our policies going to [00:27:00] be internally around using AI to serve our clients? 

And I don't know if that enough people are thinking about that. No.

It's like, look at all the cool things they can do. It's like, yeah, but do you have policies and guardrails around, because we're managing our client's information and data and like, let's make sure it doesn't cross the boundaries of then hurting our clients. Right? Like, what are we, what are the prompts we're entering?

'cause that info, once it gets inputted, like that's, it's now kind of everybody's. 

Jon Beck: I'm surprised it hasn't, bubbled up sooner. That's one of the reasons why we're waiting on the sidelines to adopt any technology because yeah, there's so many, like there's no playbook for how information is now being collected and stored and shared.

And like the predatory law firms have to be licking their chops. It's just a matter of time before this thing goes wild. And I don't wanna be first, I don't wanna have to defend it and figure out, what the legality of all of it is. 

Carlos Martinez: and your safety net and my safety net are different than Microsoft Safety net 

If they go and mess something up, 

Jon Beck: [00:28:00] yes. 

Carlos Martinez: They'll pay the fines. Correct. They'll, they'll be fine. You and I go. 

Jon Beck: We're done. 

Carlos Martinez: Are we closing our doors? Like, is that what it took? Right? 

Jon Beck: Yeah. I, I just, and like so many people are introducing it without any consideration that even the big companies that are just through, like even this Zoom call, like the automatic recording stuff, like when that first got rolled out, my team was like, I, you know, I, I don't know if I want this.

I'm on an interview. There's confidential stuff. Like it just. I don't know, man. It's, it just feels like there's, there's danger ahead. we'll find out. hey man, this is cool. it was good to, to touch base on a bunch of topics related services.

We should, We were joking. Maybe there's an opportunity to start a spinoff podcast 'cause the world needs more podcasts right now. but you know, Melissa and I get together and talk about technology and what we think is cool and what we think is absurd and everything in between. And, good to compare notes.

Last question I had, man. Where'd you get those shoes? 

Carlos Martinez: These shoes. These are, Arteric shoes. 

Jon Beck: oh 

Carlos Martinez: yeah, 

Jon Beck: I have an Arteric jacket. Dude, nothing gets, [00:29:00] no water Gets through those. 

Carlos Martinez: Dude. These are supposed to, like I run a lot, right? They're supposed to be waterproof, running shoes. I didn't buy 'em for that at all.

I'm, I'm pretty vain when it comes to how I like to look and because it makes me feel comfortable, I saw these and I was like. Those look cool. It's like those one piece that it's almost like I get it, you know? 

Jon Beck: Yes. 

Carlos Martinez: like a boot I've been rocking on for a couple weeks. 

Jon Beck: Nice. 

I make it, 

Carlos Martinez: Terry. There you go. 

Jon Beck: Always a pleasure my man. Thanks for coming on. 

Carlos Martinez: Appreciate 

Jon Beck: it. Talk to you soon. 

Carlos Martinez: Bye.