Episode #55: Dustin Talley - Founder - Direct Collective

2026 kicks off with an awesome new episode of Hiring University with guest Dustin Talley, founder of Direct Collective. 

Big takeaway: the market isn’t shrinking, it’s shifting. And the mid-market is where the action is: less noise, more opportunity, and a real need for leaders and partners who can help programs level up.

We also hit on the following topics during this episode:

• Self-managed vs. MSP (and why more programs are moving in-house)
• AI reality vs. hype. Enterprises move slowly, and partners are expected to bring innovation
• The hard truth about “partnership”: it isn’t a tagline, it’s behavior, trust, and showing up when things get hard

For more Hiring University episodes tune into your favorite podcast player or visit us at www.ursusinc.com

Transcript

Jon Beck: [00:00:00] What's up everybody? Welcome to the show. This is our first podcast of the New Year, and today we're lucky enough to have Dustin Talley, founder of Direct Collective joining us. Dustin, welcome 

Dustin Talley: John. Thanks for having me. Good to see you, man. 

Jon Beck: How did you get here, man? You, you've done long stints at MBO and Ronstadt.

You've been to the industry for a while. Tell us the genesis of Direct, collective and and the charter that you have going forward. 

Dustin Talley: Yeah, for sure. I think like anybody, the industry picks you, you don't pick it. so we're all here, right? yeah. And it's been a great deal of time in the MSP space, the E-O-R-A-O-R, right?

to get rid of the acronyms for a second. Managed service providers, those exist in every space. Those are the ones that, in our space at least, that manage the staffing services, being delivered or the contingent workforce for these large companies. that was where I got my start. Spent some time doing employer of record, agency of record.

Those are payroll companies, right? the one I worked at had a strong compliance focus, dude, the, while I was there. So at [00:01:00] MBO they've got a culture of just focusing on the independence. and so I spent a decade around that message. I think it got into my own way of thinking. and so somewhere along the way, I'm just gonna jump out and do my own thing.

Right. it took about 10 years to actually make that move. jumped out, started consulting. But, the cool thing about folks that are jumping out consulting in the space is you don't really know where that's gonna take you, right? it opens up this green field, so to speak, for me, I stood up this little networking group.

That happened to just take off while I was consulting. And so that became my main focus and that was the genesis of Direct Collective. 

Jon Beck: Nice. 

and congrats on finally jumping in. That's the hardest part, as they say. 

Going to the gym and starting two, 

Dustin Talley: the scary part, right? Just jumping off the ledge, 

Jon Beck: so to speak.

we're obviously on the same industry trade show circuit. You and I have chatted a bunch. We talked before the new year. one of the cool things about, as you describe Direct Collective and what you're trying to do is to cut through that [00:02:00] and to actually facilitate people that are actually doing something to solve the problem, not just talking about the problem itself.

So what I'd like to do is use some of those examples and the first one that hopped to mind, the Direct to Collective newsletter was in my inbox today, right before we're gonna talk. one of the articles that you had in there was about the mid market, which is super interesting.

I wanna define what it is to you first, but the mid-market sometimes gets overlooked. sometimes isn't seen as an opportunity for growth. I think there's arguably more self-managed programs that, continue to evolve because people figure it out when they're a mid-market as they go to enterprise.

But tell me from your perspective why that's such an interesting space today. 

Dustin Talley: I'll go back to a conference room I was sitting in maybe 20 years ago, they were teaching us all the buzzwords, right?

Here's what a VMS is. Here's what an MSP is. and they're like, by the way, in 10 years, 70% of these organizations, and they were talking about the Fortune 2000. these companies are gonna [00:03:00] have adopted A VMS, they're gonna have adopted an MSP.

It's been 20 years since then, and I think that's absolutely true that most of these companies out there, I'll include the Global 5,000 at this point, have been through that cycle of adopting A VMS, going down the MSP path, whatever that might mean to them. 

Those companies outside the global 5,000, and we're still talking fairly large companies, don't get the same kind of love and prioritization that the enterprise, Everybody wants the logo. even if you're losing money sometimes, right? How many of these companies in our industry will take the logo and lose the money so that they can have a story to tell?

Sure. And I, listen, I get it right. Everybody has to start somewhere and, but. If that becomes the norm, we're all headed to like a net sum of zero. Yeah. so mid-market, I categorize it as anything other than the global 5,000. 

Jon Beck: Okay. 

Dustin Talley: and size wise that can vary drastically. Right. I would say on the front end of that, in our world, you're talking companies that typically have at least 500 [00:04:00] employees.

Right. They're probably doing something strategic with contingent. there are some that go. Crazy with their model though, right? you look at companies and there's this, notion of your workforce optimization or, what type of worker mix you have within your organization. And there are those that have really embraced these contractor models.

And while they might have 500 employees, they might have 5,000 contractors. Mm-hmm. And so they're much larger than some of these enterprise programs that you and I are familiar with. So that, that's mid-market to me. That's. Where I get excited and that's where I see a lot of, the partner ecosystem headed as well.

Jon Beck: We like the mid-market too for Yeah, a few of the reasons that you recited there. To me, there's more opportunity to have an impact because of. The immaturity of some of those programs. some of it's really, frankly, pretty astounding at the lack of just general understanding of contingent workers. And you would think, especially we do a lot of business with technology firms, which is replete with contingent workers [00:05:00] everywhere.

And we talk to some talent leaders and they can't even like spell it. And I imagine for you too, the other thing that, I think is a challenge for that segment of the market. unlike a more sophisticated enterprise buyer is I think as an industry we do, 

We just always find ways to confuse the market, with different go to market, type solutions. Doug Lieby wrote a blog this week about the market isn't declining, it's fracturing, which I thought was pretty observant. you would argue that there's probably more spend happening, but they're just now in different buckets.

Sure. And so those buyers get super confused, if not overwhelmed, and a lot of them just gravitate towards what they know, which is to hire more full-time people at their own peril. so I think there's a huge opportunity there. I think a lot of the larger MSPs though, to your point, they don't, you know, they're too small on spend.

They don't have the patience to go do the dirty work. And actually. You know, shepherd these people along, That's a huge opportunity for consultants to come in and add a ton of value. 

Dustin Talley: Yeah. So that's something we're seeing. 

It's a topic I'm maybe even in the middle of it, [00:06:00] right? If you think about when I launched out, I started consulting in the space, and it's a bit meta in a sense, the number of consultants that exist within the contingent workforce space, right? We effectively are the contingent workforce for the contingent workforce.

or I was, when I was doing it. and I would say four or five years ago, yet a lot of people, make that leap either because they chose to or because circumstantially, they, no longer, were employed and that became their option. I've got this notion though, and this is what you and I were chatting about previously.

there are some of these folks that are consultants that don't even know it, right? So if I think about the community and direct collective, and I watch these different leaders, some of them, many of them come in, some knowing this, some not knowing this, this is really like a two or three year journey.

and they're gonna get that program to some level of maturity, whatever that is, and likely move on to the next company, next organization. and so you see that happening again, whether intentional or not. yes, they're full-time employees, however [00:07:00] they're being. And they're operating like consultants, right?

To move that organization forward. Also, you've got the C twos of the world, right? Our friend Kara, others that have, figured this out. They set up firms and they've started growing in this space. You've got the big conglomerates realizing that this is, there's something happening here as well.

And so I think it was last year, maybe two years ago, Deloitte set up a, within their firm, they have a contingent workforce consulting division Now. Right. so this isn't news. It probably shouldn't be shocking to anybody, but yes, there's way more focus on this space. There is more happening.

So I agree with Doug's statement. There's way more happening in this space, but it's buried all over the place. It isn't the traditional way. We all knew it 20 years ago. 

Jon Beck: Which again is an opportunity for qualified consultants. 'cause let's be sure, honest, it's as easy to be, become as consulting firm as it is to become a staffing firm.

for those that really can bring value and understand it, without bias because one size doesn't fit all, that's it. For as a supplier, it's super exciting for us [00:08:00] because even two or three years ago, The default was the narrative that the SIA or the a SA, nothing against them, but it was their narrative of how it should be done regardless of your size, vertical industry.

True. or what you, there was a 

Dustin Talley: path to maturity. 

Jon Beck: Yeah. And so there's just a lot more options, where everybody can play, which is great. Speaking of the evolution of that, when you think about the default model of MSP or self-managed with the VMS tool.

when you think back a couple years, like what's the most, significant advancement, either technologically or how people are setting up programs, that has changed what we were doing in the past. 

Dustin Talley: Yeah. well, I think there's a much bigger emphasis, and I don't know, this is technology on collecting the data first.

Mm-hmm. So, going back to your point, just a moment ago, if someone handed you a roadmap and they said, here's what you do. Right. You follow the ingredients list and whip it up just like this. That, that's what you would do. however, if you pause for just a moment and you [00:09:00] take inventory of what you have in your kitchen and you realize, well, I don't have all the ingredients, I even need to do this, right.

or, you know, I'm just taking that moment to pause. And I think that's what's happening more often now is these leaders are getting wise to the fact that. The DNA of where they've arrived probably looks different than where they were before. Right. And if they're doing it for their first time, they're, you know, just taking inventory to figure out where they want to go.

But I think that's the biggest change I've seen is people are being thoughtful about where they're going next. Also to the point of you and I were just making, if the output where all these people end up. Is a bit different than it looked 20 years ago. 

Jon Beck: Mm-hmm. 

Dustin Talley: I think you've gotta collect your data in a different way and then it doesn't fit into a traditional system either.

So I would say like, I don't know that it's technology that's changed, it's everything surrounding us has changed in terms of like how we engage these people. And I think the thing that the programs, whether this is an MSP that's crushing it and figured it out, [00:10:00] or an internally managed program, they're taking inventory much better versus just following some playbook.

Jon Beck: Data collection is, look it, it's hard. I get it, but like, sure. There's so many programs that we talk to that like 24 months later, like we're still in data collection phase. I, I, I don't, I just don't see how that's possible with the tools that are available today. 

Dustin Talley: That's fair. 

I'll say some of this and then I'll regret it later. hopefully this doesn't get broadcast too widely. If you're listening, you're one of the lucky, people to hear my true thoughts on this. like any, leader, right? I think some of us aspire to get to a certain stage in our career.

I think some of these people have arrived where they want, right? In terms of they got the job at the company. They want, they, they. And so with that, great, awesome. You're in that spot. I think some of these folks, not all of them, their job is to keep their job. Right. And so that, that's what you're hearing in that statement 

We're still reviewing this. so you've got leaders that are [00:11:00] absolutely afraid to push things forward, to be innovative, to make a name. 'cause they're trying to keep a job at the same time. And let's not, let's not forget how. Deeply challenging. It is some of the political environments you go into within these big companies, you gotta tiptoe around.

you don't wanna rock the boat. That's one of the things I love about Direct Collective, when you can get people around others who inspire them to take that step, like, how did you do that thing? Like, really, that's impressive.

We want those stories being told. Not the ones that are like boring and stale and outplay. We've all heard the like, love Katie's Southwest, all the teams. They, I've heard the Southwest story 20 times, right? That's great. What happened last year? That's really exciting. Let's tell that story. Let's get people excited and then let's get them connected to that leader.

And I think that's a step that wasn't happening in some of these, circles that I saw these leaders weren't getting connected to compare notes and like, how did you do that? Exactly. I kind of [00:12:00] wanna roll up my sleeves. I want to make a name for myself, but I'm scared. And so yes, you're gonna hear that we're collecting data.

Two years later from people that haven't done that, I'm hopeful that some of what we've done is we've started to invoke change and turn people into innovators. 

Jon Beck: first of all, well done politically responding to that question, and I think it's fair. direct collective is creating gravity for people that are doers.

I go back to sharing stories of actually solving the problem versus talking about it. most organizations, it starts at the top. If you don't have leadership that really is concerned, and sees an opportunity to, Diversify their workforce in terms of how they're building themselves, and deal with compliance, and use it as a differentiator.

It's probably not gonna happen. I mean, we talked to, we've talked to the clients that like, have estimated they have a billion dollars of miscategorized spend. So first of all, there's, you know, there's a compliance issue, but secondly, like you're a publicly traded company, a billion dollars is a meaningful number when you.[00:13:00] 

Show up on your quarterly and annual reports, like you would think there'd be some urgency to go get some of that back, but it just doesn't happen. 

Dustin Talley: I, I have this like, talk track. I like to head down around contingent work being strategic to organizations. and like if we go back again, it used to be like these were temps and like it wasn't, that's you're from the start, that's not strategic.

and you've definitely got procurement, hr, talent acquisition, all of it's starting to converge, right? We talked about total talent years ago. By the way, total talent was a commercial message, not a message that was being talked about in these companies. They had no desire at that point. No. To combine forces now, out of necessity or out of, growth or out of, maybe people just are seeing this and it, I love it even more so when you're seeing it at a senior leadership level, right?

You see the C-suite in one of these large companies, like really zero in and say, oh, it's an ecosystem of talent, right? It's not full-time and contract and, Those companies are really set up for [00:14:00] success in the future. And I'm sure those are the jobs that a lot of these contingent workforce leaders aspire to have.

The reality is a lot of them sit in these seats where they're like, God, I wish my leaders would get it right. And so they're working bottom up and it's, you know, it's this constant mission of like trying to get all the attention over here. when in reality what they need to do is be bringing some of these things to start equipping their senior leadership to start making these decisions.

but they've gotta get in the rooms too, right? You gotta get invited to the right meetings, all the things. 

Jon Beck: is it reality or not that there's a real movement to self-manage right now? IF I'll answer my own question. 

If there is.

Dustin Talley: I was gonna say, I'm the wrong person to ask 'cause we get a lot of self-managed programs. Right. so we're, I think SIA is probably 60 40, 65, 35 in terms of MSP. Yeah. self-managed. We're the inverse of that at Direct Collective, but I think that's natural and it's been organic because if you're a self-managed program, you don't have that partner.

Right. And that is some of the value that [00:15:00] MSP brings. They see across dozens, hundreds of programs sometimes. If you're like an Allegis or something. and so they can bring that expertise to you. If I'm Deloitte and I manage my program all by myself, I don't see across other programs, right?

And so Deloitte, by the way, shout out founding members of Direct Collective. Nice. Monica Lucero over there helped, stand this thing up four years ago. they need to see across other programs, and so yes. We're seeing more of it as well. I have a hunch that yes, there are some more going in-house.

you also see this, kind of revolving door. It depends on the leader that's in at the time and what their methodology and who their relationships are. So if I've got a strong relationship with a lot of the MSPs, I come in, I take this new role, I'm gonna pull those MSPs with me. Right. it's still a relational world that we live in.

Jon Beck: Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. we can't talk about our industry without, discussing ai, for better, for worse. Sure. Yeah. what are you, what are you seeing that's real versus hype specific to the consulting work that you're doing? you know, the big question, which [00:16:00] I think is being answered quickly, which is refreshing, is, you know, is it an existential threat to our industry?

I vote no. 

Dustin Talley: Yeah. the buzzword of the last couple years, right. Most program leaders are not touching AI themselves. now I think this is changing rapidly, by the way. 

Things with AI change pretty quickly, but most are not deploying AI themselves. however, there is a heavy expectation that their partners, right, suppliers, MSPs, are doing something to bring AI innovation to those organizations. you look at like the op oly bline relationship that was absolutely born out of, 

Clients going to Beeline saying, we need you to show us ai. So bring in LY as an AI play. Right. I see it starting with the smaller organizations where they do have that agility. my wife, she works at j and j, it is almost impossible for them to go grab an AI tool off the shelf and start playing with it.

'cause you got data security and what's going in there. Yeah. All, all the things pop up. [00:17:00] Right. And so I think there's a big expectation that the smaller companies are bringing the innovation to the space. Go back to the consultants, right? You got all these folks that are out there vibe, coding and doing all the fun stuff.

There's a lot of innovation being stirred up in the small space. And by the way, this happens in cycles, right? And then those companies get acquired by the next size of company and then, you know, all of a sudden it shows up in the enterprise world, but it's, it's slower to the enterprise. it's speeding up in the mid-market, I'd say.

Jon Beck: Yeah, I agree. Let's talk about ecosystem and partnership. easy words to say, thrown around capriciously by people. It's on, you know, PowerPoint decks and websites. 

Dustin Talley: Yeah. 

Jon Beck: What in your, you've sat on both sides of the desk now.

How do you facilitate and what's a really, like generally how do you build that? what does that look like in your eyes based on the programs that you work with?

Dustin Talley: What does it look like to build partnership? 

Jon Beck: Yeah. I mean, what are the foundational tenets of it, I guess, right? Because again, people say, you know, like, what, because [00:18:00] you've been part of a lot of successful partnerships, I'm sure. and again, with that fractured, State of things, it becomes even, I think, sometimes more contentious.

Dustin Talley: Well, let's talk partnership in general for a second, then I'll dive into program level. 'cause there's partnership for sake of like vanity partnership, like I said earlier, we want the logos combined, whatever that means. And that exists in the client ecosystem where you go acquire a client and all of a sudden I work for Amazon.

Or there, you know, there are client, that exists in our world too, where supplier meets supplier and they're like. One plus one equals 10, and we're gonna, you know, all the eyeballs are gonna be on us. And a lot of times those are vanity partnerships, as well, right? it's meant to attract some attention.

and then you've got, you know, where we're gonna go with partnerships, is the partnerships that help these programs actually move the needle, right? And so, if we think about it, I hate the term vendor, by the way. I'll go there for a second. 

It really is.

Yeah. Like, you do something for me, you supply me with some, like, [00:19:00] I always think of like the guy that shows, shows up to fill the vending machines. 

Jon Beck: Oh, dude. That'ss exactly what I was thinking about. 

Yes. 

Dustin Talley: And like, it is to 

Jon Beck: demand or on potato chips, call the vendor. 

Dustin Talley: Right.

the partners though that are crushing it are those that actually go in and realize they're trying to make. This person's successful. And if we think about it, that's really what we're all doing is rallying around this person who leads a CW program and sits in that really awkward seat of like, yes, they understand this world that we all live in, but they live inside this weird organization that they've gotta help invoke this change.

And so all of us as partners have to rally around that person. Now what do they actually get though? their partners just wanting more wrecks and so it doesn't feel like a partner ecosystem to them. So a lot of them go, you know, put their head in the sand, they go do this like solo mission and then they operate with their vendors when they need something.

And so I think that's the reality is we've all gotta figure out how to partner around this person who can be perhaps that change agent in these large [00:20:00] companies. where that breaks down is when that person is not that change agent. When that program, puts up all the walls, then what you actually get in reality is you go around all of it, find the people at, you know, the individual levels, and we're gonna partner with this company and.

300 different ways through every individual manager and help 'em be successful. but we have started to see some right where, program managers lean into this and their partners lean into it, and you get this like, beautiful marriage of everyone kind of working together. By the way, what that looks like is that nasty word of supplier optimization, though.

It's about getting the right partners in the programs. Yep, yep. and so that, that's actually, and I think that's in that. Newsletter too, if you read through it. I gave some prediction around what's happening with staffing. I think to some degree what you were talking about with Doug, there's some fragmentation happening.

there will absolutely be less staffing suppliers in the future. And the ones that will be here are gonna be the ones that crushed it in that partner category, right. They really figure out how to rally around these people. [00:21:00] That doesn't mean that you don't have your programs where you go direct to managers and you crush it, and yeah, that's gonna happen too, 

Yeah, I think that's the next wave of staffing that we're gonna see. 

Jon Beck: Give me, you see a lot of problems and successes. Give me example of something that's worked really well. Feel free to use names or not Sure. if it's sensitive and then something that's not gone well. Or even like a pet peeve that you see over and over and over again that the same mistake happens or the same problem arises that should be solved.

Dustin Talley: Oh wow. 

Jon Beck: gimme the good and the bad. 

Dustin Talley: Well, let's stay in this partner lens for just a second. you talked about, or we talked earlier about the person that's always collecting data. There are those on our side that does, this does not work well to act like you're partnering with someone.

Get all the information, extract, extract, extract. Then never bring them into your program, never do anything with them. I very much dislike seeing that, or when we see leaders that get that reputation, we all know to run from them. You eventually figure out who that is. that does not work out well.

So I think on the program [00:22:00] side, not extracting value for sake of extracting value, without knowing there's a moment where you should really pull these people into your, like truly partner with them, right? They're running businesses. you can't just leverage it, on the, let's jump to the supplier side though, right?

So, staffing partner, I'll use instead. I see staffing partners that really get to know these leaders. And again, this goes back to the relationship side of our industry. I think when you get to know these leaders, when their walls come down, when both sides kind of get vulnerable, that's when trust starts to be built.

I heard this thing, I haven't validated this myself, but I heard this thing recently where there's a seven hour trust cycle. 

Jon Beck: Hmm. 

Dustin Talley: Have you heard this haven? It takes seven hours. 

Jon Beck: Yeah. 

Dustin Talley: Keep going. So, so you and I, if we, if we sit here for seven more hours, by the end of it, right. We have a, you know, we sit here and drink all night, whatever it is, you and I will have built such a connection.

That trust is at its highest then, or they can be at its highest then. Mm-hmm. I think that's the truth of it, is you've [00:23:00] gotta spend enough time with these leaders, but on both sides. Right. This is programs with, their supply base. This is supply base with their. Programs or clients spending the time to get to know each other and not in a QBR setting, but like actually investing that time.

and I have a hunch that after that seven hour period is when trust starts to get built. my guess is these companies on the supply side that have, really invested in those relationship development people that spend time with the clients, not just gimme a recs, right? But spend time with them.

Those are the ones that are gonna be in the remaining bunch that are serving these after that optimization period. 

Jon Beck: For what it's worth, we remind our team all the time. We're in an industry, you know, people are, is the product. people are messy. Stuff is gonna go bad when it does. How you respond and whether you run to it or run away from it, is gonna make the difference.

Those are the best opportunities to build trust and to build relationships. Easy to [00:24:00] like kumbaya when everything's going great. When you're solving problems together in, in, you know, semi crisis mode, that's when you really understand what that partner's made of. And it's bi-directional, it goes both ways.

So 

Dustin Talley: it it does, yeah. Well, and it own stuff when there's mistakes. 'cause how, how quickly are people like, you know, 

Jon Beck: back 

Dustin Talley: off and it's, you know, 

Jon Beck: well a lot times mistake because it yours, but you're still in the mix and so you gotta be, you gotta be part of the, the solution. So I, I love the answer. let's go into the time machine real quick and, and first of all, we're gonna go forward.

in a, if you could wave the magic wand five years from now, what does direct collective look like? 

Dustin Talley: Oh, man, I, that's a great question and I, I, well, I'm gonna, you're putting me on the spot 'cause I'm, 

Jon Beck: big. 

Dustin Talley: I know. Well, I ended up here and I, I'll tell people that openly, obviously this is podcast style.

so this kind of just happened, evolved in, in the best organic way possible. Right. and so I'm excited by that. I think this becomes the largest place that people go to make decisions. There you go. so we're already on course to be that. Anyways. I [00:25:00] think we might be that by the end of 2026. 

the largest I know in this space has about four or 500 customers, right? and by the way, not all of them trusted customers. They do business with these people. by the time we get to that, this becomes the place that is the most trusted place where decisions are. And so that's, that's the mission I'm on.

the way that I like to articulate it now, and I don't know that this is, still perfect or, honed in, but my major mission in life is to build trust at scale. to your point earlier, dude, like that, I think that's what most of this industry wants is just partners they can trust, not someone they can just do business with.

Far, often, people just cash in right when they can. Right? it may not have seemed transactional in the beginning, but it was like, it was a relational thing, hidden to be transactional. I've been, hyper relational, focused on the trust factor. I would love to say in five years that trust has only grown.

Jon Beck: It's pretty easy to see through that [00:26:00] though. You may not see it at first, but, it doesn't take long to, to see through those transactional in disguised. 

Dustin Talley: Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I know. Yeah. 

Jon Beck: Yeah. 

Dustin Talley: so 

Jon Beck: let's jump back in the time machine and then go back to the 

Dustin Talley: what year. Where are we at? 

Jon Beck: Well, we're gonna go back to the point in time when you started your career, whether it's in staffing or in general, what one piece of advice would you give.

Young Dustin starting his career with everything that, you know, sitting here talking to me today. 

Dustin Talley: Yeah, dude. great question. you, you should do this for a living, John, just to interview people. it's an art, right? Like we've listened to enough podcasts. 

it is fun when you can ask the right questions that unearth, good responses. So, I would go back and tell any, 20 something in our space. Spend time with your leaders. don't kiss their ass for sake of kissing their ass. But any chance you get to go grab a drink, get a dinner, whatever, just get around those people.

you will be successful if you find yourself in a room and you are always the youngest person, by the way, it will not always be that way. You'll look up and eventually you'll be the oldest person. You're like, [00:27:00] what the heck just happened? 

Jon Beck: Happens 

Dustin Talley: fast. But try to make it where you are the youngest person in as many a rooms as possible and just soak things up.

and from that will come so many opportunities, right? All these doors start opening up. I was fortunate enough, someone told me that in my twenties I followed that recipe. Worked out really well. Every door I've ever wanted opened, at this point. so yeah, go back and, find your leaders, find your people.

You need to be around 

Jon Beck: good stuff and don't be, 

this generation sometimes is so bashful and I'm not exactly sure why. I have kids this age that are in the workforce and all their friends, and you constantly have to remind them People generally want to help. And if they don't then you know that's not the right person and you'll figure that out really quickly.

But don't, if you don't ask, you're never gonna know. but don't be so bashful, like just, you know, if you don't ask the question anyways, I think it's great advice. and, and hopefully you have some younger listeners that'll take up it. Dustin, this is really good stuff man. Thank you for coming on, the show.

If people want to get in touch with you or direct collective, what's the [00:28:00] best way for them to do so? 

Dustin Talley: I'd say LinkedIn's my primary spot. I'm pretty active there. Dustin Tally on LinkedIn. you can look us up, direct collective.co, and see all that we're up to. 

Jon Beck: Awesome. 

Dustin Talley: Thanks for having me, John. This was awesome man.

Really appreciate you having me on. 

Jon Beck: Thanks for coming on the show. Wish you the best of luck on the five year plan. And, 

Dustin Talley: yeah, 

Jon Beck: for our listeners, as always, keep grinding, keep the faith, keep safe and we will see you next time on hiring University.